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Series of neighboring words - false synonyms (ex.Increasing Force/Level)

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Message  gerardM Mer 16 Mar - 20:04

Hi everyone,

In my opinion, something important for intermediate learners is to work on synonyms and differences between false synomyms (read on to understand what I call "true/false synonym").

As English comes with several roots (Germanic, French, Latin, Greek, Norge or Dane...), there are many words (more than in French) or at least several words with similar meanings.
. it's interesting to know several words for the same idea in order to vary them and avoid repeating tho English speaking people don't attach as much importance as the French do to repeated words in a sentence.
. in fact, true synonyms are very rare because natives usually prefer a given word in some examples and another "synonym" in other cases (we do this in French as well)... I'd a personal experience with a friend telling me: "your language is funny: I understand what you mean but it's not the word I'd use"
. it's important to know about the different levels for an idea (usually adjectives) so that we can use the right adjective and prefer "huge" to a poor "very very tall"!

What do you think?

For example, we could draw up a series from cold to warm (and below and beyond)
... other ones from tiny to huge, etc.

That would enhance everyone's vocabulary and knowlege, no?


Dernière édition par gerardM le Mar 5 Avr - 11:19, édité 1 fois

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Message  Invité Mer 16 Mar - 21:06

Hi Gérard,
This looks like a good exercise.
There are other series that I can think of ... distance, time, colour, weight, emotions

PS : my personal "pièce de résistance" is swear words, so do you think it would be considered to be in poor taste if we have a tutorial on swearing ??? Shocked Shocked
Think how useful it would be for travellers eg when they wanted to swear at the dodgy taxi driver !

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Message  gerardM Mer 16 Mar - 22:20

LOL

Krystyna... you look like a true Aussie!! C\'est vrai!! A few people here would like to speak to the Queen... Wink

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Message  Invité Mer 16 Mar - 22:31

Ah, but I know a secret about the queen !
She loves swearing, especially at Phil ! Twisted Evil

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Message  gerardM Mer 16 Mar - 23:26

Hi Krystyna, hi everyone,

a series from cold to warm (and below and beyond)
Icy / ice-cold / frozen (adj. & past part.) / freezing (present part.) / frost-bittengelé / glacé / mordant / piquant / pelant! / (cailler!)
nippy!
chilly / coldfroid
coolfrais / frisquet!
lukewarm / tepid / mild / temperatetiède
warmchaud
hot / torrid / scorchingtorride / caniculaire
boiling hot / burning hot / blazingbouillant / brûlant
(! means informal / !! would mean rude / !!! would mean vulgar)

Any comments? Any additions?
Could anyone add German, Italian, Spanish... words?

@Krystyna: I made 8 levels in English, do you agree with them or are there synonyms?
Did you know all of the French words? Do you need explanations re the French words (some are not exact synonyms - for example pelant might not exist but peler does exist)?
Feel free to ask.


Dernière édition par gerardM le Dim 20 Mar - 1:06, édité 1 fois (Raison : add piquant)

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Message  gerardM Jeu 17 Mar - 10:22

Hi everyone,

> "Increasing Force/Level"
The title of this thread prolly sounds dodgy - I chose it myself, however when I read it again, I sometimes wonder what I meant. Wink
I wanted to translate an increasing degree in a series of words.

I wanted to use a French word I love which is "gradation" (nice isn't it?). After having checked its meaning in English, I stopped and closed my dictionary (an e- one - bang!), horrified by the heaps of sexy words around!! affraid have a look if you've a good heart! Laughing Oh Gosh!! affraid affraid

NB: I don't know about French language but in English, there are oodles of weird words about sex everywhere! beware the double entendres!

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Message  Invité Sam 19 Mar - 0:14

Hi Gérard,
I am mystified !
As far as I know, there is nothing sinister about the word "gradation" !
For me, it just means graduations or increments ?
Hum ...

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Message  Invité Sam 19 Mar - 0:20

Regarding the series of cold to warm ...

For "nippy", we can say "piquant"

I am not completely sure about the authenticity of this, but we have a "naughty/funny" reason for the word "nippy"
When it is cold, nipples tend to become firm and erect, so some say the word "nippy" derives from this !
(nipple = mamelon)
Vrai ou faux ... je ne sais pas !

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Message  Invité Sam 19 Mar - 0:46

A series for size ...

minute / minisculeminuscule
tinytout petit
smallpetit
mediummoyen
largegrand
enormousénorme
massivemassif

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Message  gerardM Sam 19 Mar - 1:17

Krystyna,
krystynaD a écrit:... I am mystified !
As far as I know, there is nothing sinister about the word "gradation" !
For me, it just means graduations or increments ?
Hum ...
You are quite right! Shocked I know what I did!
I made a mistake using my dictionary: searching for "gradation", I chose an option to enlarge the vocabulary range and it went to another word which is "climax" and it's that b. climax which has the naughty meanings!
Sorry!
Thanks!

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PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
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Message  gerardM Dim 20 Mar - 1:22

Hi everyone,

Though it might be possible to set up a series of synonyms, I start this message on a specific and restricted subject.

An intermediate trainee is happy to know one English word for a French word and doesn't care much about synonyms and subtleties.
They learned (regular verb in US En) from the beginning that Fr mal, mauvais is En bad... scratch

Unfortunately, they'd need to quickly revise this...

Bad is a strong and negative word with a meaning closer to méchant, vilain, bête, stupide or nuisible... often negative
For example to say that our English language is not very good, we must not say that it is bad but that it is poor

In my dictionary:
bad (extract)
1 (poor, inferior, incompetent, unacceptable) [book, harvest, spelling, eyesight, answer, memory, cook, father, liar, management, decision, idea] mauvais (before n); [joke] stupide; a
bad thing une mauvaise chose; to have bad hearing ne pas très bien entendre; to have bad teeth/bad legs avoir de mauvaises dents/de vilaines jambes; to be bad
at être mauvais en [subject]; to be bad at sport ne pas être doué pour le sport; to be bad at doing (do badly) ne pas être doué pour faire; (dislike doing, do reluctantly) avoir
du mal à faire; that's bad! (disapproving) c'est une honte!; not bad[!] pas mauvais, pas mal[!]; it wouldn't be a bad idea to… ce ne serait pas une mauvaise idée de…;
as bosses go she's not bad comme patronne elle n'est pas mal[!];
2 (unpleasant, unfavourable, negative) [news, day, time, year, smell, dream, reaction, review, result, forecast, omen, sign, mood, temper] mauvais (before n); it's bad enough having
to wait, but… c'est déjà assez pénible de devoir attendre, mais…; it looks ou things look bad cela s'annonce mal (for pour); that's bad! (it's a pity) c'est bête!; the
journey/exam wasn't bad at all le voyage/l'examen s'est plutôt bien passé; too bad! (sympathetic) pas de chance!; (hard luck) tant pis!;
3 (morally or socially unacceptable) [person, behaviour, habit, life, manners, example, influence, reputation] mauvais (before n); [language, word] grossier/-ière; bad dog! vilain!; you
bad girl! vilaine!; he's been a bad boy il a été vilain, il n'a pas été gentil; it is bad to do c'est mal de faire; it is bad of sb to do ce n'est pas bien de la part de qn de
faire; it is bad that il est regrettable que (+ subj); it will look bad cela fera mauvais effet; to feel bad avoir mauvaise conscience (about au sujet de); I feel bad
about leaving you on your own/being late yesterday j'ai mauvaise conscience de te laisser tout seul/d'avoir été en retard hier;
4 (severe, serious) [accident, attack, fracture, injury, mistake] grave; [case] sérieux/-ieuse; to have bad toothache avoir très mal aux dents; a bad cold un gros rhume; how
bad is it? c'est grave?; it looks bad cela a l'air grave;
5 (harmful, injurious) bad for mauvais pour; smoking is bad for you ou your health fumer est mauvais pour la santé; it's bad for you to eat that tu ne devrais pas manger
ça; it's bad for industry c'est néfaste pour l'industrie; it will be bad for mothers cela fera du tort aux mères;

poor (extract)
2 (inferior) [quality, start, result, record] mauvais; [work] (of student, pupil) faible; (of worker, factory) mauvais; [soldier, manager, performance] piètre (before n), mauvais;
[education, English, communication, planning, advice] mauvais; [harvest, weather, forecast, visibility] mauvais; [health, eyesight, memory] défectueux/-euse, mauvais;
[soil] pauvre (never before n); [appetite] petit; [chance, attendance] faible; [lighting] mauvais; [meal] (insufficient) maigre; (lacking quality) mauvais; [consolation] piètre
(before n); to be poor at [person] être faible en [maths, French]; to be a poor sailor ne pas avoir le pied marin; I'm a poor traveller je supporte mal les voyages; to
be a poor substitute for sth ne pas valoir qch;
Take a look at the above examples behind "poor" and tell me if you hadn't used "bad" instead.


Do you agree with my position?
Tell me what you think about this but I personally avoid "bad" except for serious cases.

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
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Message  MurielB Dim 20 Mar - 19:43

Hi Gérard, hi everyone
The word "bad" has a very strong meaning and I it is often better to use "poor". It was very interesting to recall that Very Happy

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Message  gerardM Jeu 31 Mar - 23:14

Hi everyone,

Sometimes there are several English words for the same idea and it is not obvious to know which one to use as they are not true synonyms.
It's the same in French, we have several words but we don't use them by chnace but according to each case...

I'm thinking of the thingie to prevent contents from leaving a container.

In French, we have: bouchon, couvercle, capuchon, capsule...
In English, we have: lid, cover, cork, stopper, hood, plug, cap, top...

Did I forget a few?

Which one to use??

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
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Message  Invité Jeu 31 Mar - 23:26

Hi Gérard,

This is an interesting exercise that has got me "scratching my head" to remember how we use the words in English !

Lid = on a glass or plastic container
Cover = generally something made of fabric eg a couvre-lit
Cork = only if it is actually made of cork, like a bouchon
Stopper = generally made of rubber eg on a medicine bottle
Hood = the part of the car that covers the engine
Plug = for the bath-tub
Cap = on a tube eg toothpaste; or on a bottle, eg milk or water
Top = generic for cap or lid

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Message  gerardM Jeu 31 Mar - 23:39

Krystyna,

Thank you very much for your response!
For "hood", I was also thinking of the hood on the head or in a falcon's head.

...funny! "hood": aren't you describing the meaning in American (cover the engine)? isn't it "bonnet" in British En?

Do you know how to use the French words?


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Message  MurielB Ven 1 Avr - 9:34

Hi Krystyna Hi Gérard
I have just been reading again all your posts about Increasing Force/Level and I find them very interesting ! I advise people on this forum to do the same.
Something is missing : Krystyna 's tutorial on swearing Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Message  gerardM Ven 1 Avr - 12:06

Muriel,

You should not suggest this...
MurielB a écrit:... Something is missing : Krystyna 's tutorial on swearing Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
... she knows lots of awful ones and is able to post them all here! Wink

I reckon that a gradation of them might be handy!

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Message  Invité Sam 2 Avr - 22:38

Hi Muriel,

Gérard is right !
I could fill a page on swear words, with "not-so-bad" to "truly awful" !
Mind you, a gradation would be very very useful if you ever want to visit Oz !

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Message  Invité Sam 2 Avr - 22:47

Hi Gérard,

I will try with the French words for cover ...

bouchon = cork (en liège eg wine bottle), stopper (glass, metal, plastic), or plug (bath)

couvercle = lid (box, pot, saucepan)

capuchon = cap (pen)

capsule = cap (bottle)

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Message  gerardM Dim 3 Avr - 23:12

Hi Krystyna,

Herebelow, you mainly give us the definitions of the English words, thanks!
krystynaD a écrit:Hi Gérard,

I will try with the French words for cover ...

bouchon = cork (en liège eg wine bottle), stopper (glass, metal, plastic), or plug (bath)

couvercle = lid (box, pot, saucepan)

capuchon = cap (pen)

capsule = cap (bottle)

bouchon = cork (en liège eg wine bottle), stopper (glass, metal, plastic), or plug (bath)
Pour une bouteille de Champagne ou de vin mais on dit aussi bouchon pour quelque chose de métallique qui se visse, qqc en plastique par exemple pour une bouteille de lait, de jus de fruits, d'eau ; un bouchon en verre pour un flacon de parfum ; également pour l'évacuation de la baignoire. 10/10 !
couvercle = lid (box, pot, saucepan)
C'est exact, le couvercle est pour les ouvertures plus larges que celles du bouchon : pour une casserole, une cocotte-minute, une lessiveuse (ça existe toujours ??), un alambic...
Pour un pot de confiture, cette taille est inférieure à celle d'une casserole, certains disent bouchon et certains disent couvercle. 10/10
Il y a des exceptions mais un couvercle est plutôy quelque chose qui se pose.
capuchon = cap (pen)
Exact mais aussi un capuchon (ou une capuche) pour un manteau, un imperméable... je crois qu'il s'agit d'un objet avec une forme spécifique (un creux) qui recouvre mais ne ferme pas complètement. 10/10
capsule = cap (bottle)
Oui, ce qui ferme une bouteille de soda, de Coca-Cola, de bière... on utilise un décapsuleur. 10/10

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PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
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Message  gerardM Lun 18 Avr - 19:06

Howdy everyone,

I'm going to reactivate this thread as, in my opinion, it's one of the best topic designed for upper-intermediate students.

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Message  MurielB Lun 18 Avr - 21:10

Bonsoir Gérard, Krystyna,tous
Reactivate this thread is a very good idea and I can give you the example of "humide"
"Damp" humide et froid
"Humid" humide et chaud en parlant du temps
"dank" humide et malsain
"moist" humide de tiède en bonne part
"clammy"(humide et tiède au sens péjoratif c'est à dire moite)
dewy (sens poétique) I
It will be a good idea to add more from time to time Very Happy Very Happy

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La Lengua es el Nexo de unión,
Sprache ist die Verbindung, 
Il Linguaggio è Il Legame,
La Lingvo estas La Ligilo etc.
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Message  Invité Lun 18 Avr - 22:36

Nice collection of "wet" words Muriel ! cat

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Message  gerardM Lun 18 Avr - 22:51

Hi Muriel, Krystna, hi everyone,

With the richness of the vocabulary in a domain, we can guess the specialty of a country Wink

To Muriel's collection, we could add: (and the wet by Krystyna) misty, foggy, rainy, muggy.

Muriel, could we set a similar list for the other side of the range? I mean the opposite of wet.


Dernière édition par gerardM le Mar 19 Avr - 1:44, édité 1 fois (Raison : spelling)

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Message  gerardM Mar 19 Avr - 1:44

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to list adjectives or adverbs around quantity and mainly trying to sort them from few to many.
For a "level", if no adj. nor adv. exist, we'll take a noun.
I'll try to also give French equivalents.

In a first step, I list, and I count on you to help me add others, then I will make a beautiful table.

nonexistent, without, nil, nobody, none, nowhere, no way > rare > too few/little > very few/little, a pinch > few, a few, little, a little > several > much, many > very > oodles, lots, a lot, heaps, far..., way..., loads[!] of, a whole slew of (US) > a great deal > crowded > overcrowded > too much/many, excessive, extreme
inexistant, sans, nul, personne, aucun, nulle part > rare > trop peu > très peu > peu, un peu, une pincée > quelques > plusieurs > beaucoup > très > un tas, une chiée[!], une tapée[!] > énormément > peuplé > surpeuplé > trop, excessif, extrême

Pls could you help me?
Did I forget items, including informal and slang?
Did I make mistakes regarding the levels, the order, equality?

We, Frenchperson, let's think French vocabulary will help foreign members...

Thanks!

_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.  :-)
gerardM
gerardM

Messages : 31183
Lieu : Ermont & Eaubonne café-langues (Val d'Oise)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), US-En, De, It, Ru

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