Computer viruses could move into biological realm

Hi everyone,

Last week, a BlackHat meeting was taking place in Amsterdam, that brought together lots of Computer Security Specialists.

Here's one of the resulting papers:
- Computer viruses could move into biological realm (page 1)
- Computer viruses could move into biological realm (page 2)

Don't shrug your shoulders, stating this is just crap, just good for Hollywood...
Think of lots of people who have implants -led by computers- in their bodies...

Analogies are very interesting. Fortunately, bio-viruses are not as advanced as digital ones.

Do read till the end of the second page.

Hi Gérard ! Hi Everyone

Thank you very much for this very interesting post. I talked about it with Patrick over Breakfast.

Hi Gérard ! Hi Everyone

Thank you very much for this very interesting post. I talked about it with Patrick over Breakfast.

I understand a bit more now. Computor viruses have a linear structure and bio viruses a three-dimensional one.

that is their main difference.

The first one is like a brick-line and the other is like a building but both bring disinformation.

People with a pacemake for instance can have computor viruses in their body.

It's the only way for computor viruses to move into biological realm. Am I right ?

Hi Muriel, Patrick, hi everyone,

I remember decades ago (around 1990) when a work colleague asked me and another IT guy, about computers being able to take over humankind: our response was NO.

I would give the opposite answer now.t


At the time, I was just imagining metallic thingies trying to catch and kick human beings and sit at the Elysées Palace, etc. I mainly had in mind human beings were wise and clever and that nobody would take any risk.
Regarding "human beings were wise and clever", my position changed completely!
The danger of robots taking over humankind is -according to me- higher than someone pushing the atomic button.
I mean that the danger of an atomic bomb sent somewhere on Earth is low because (and just because) the danger is known and checked by many governmental organizations. The risk is not nil as many uncontrollable people would like to get nuclear power.

In my mind, robots won't catch humans to sent them into jail and sit down into the armchair of the Elysées desk.
Robots (say computers) are everywhere, they are managing more and more domains of our lives.
Humans are not wise.
Governments don't see any danger, on the opposite, they promote computers so that nobody will stop them early while danger is here (and will get bigger and bigger).
Computers might stop power/energy, mess up organization in hospitals, mess everything up in a car, etc.
Look at what was done in the financial world... computers and human teams betting on the collapse of Euro... human teams are not wise, governments didn't see anything early enough (on the opposite)...

Lots of mad people are on Earth nowadays.


Do apply my reasoning to the biological realm: computers might mess up digital appliances/devices (pacemakers, monitors that help some people live, more and more electronics will help ill people, etc.).
Computers won't build a bio-virus.
Very small computers/robots ("nano-xyz") will be inserted in human bodies soon to maintain health, to provide medecine on the spots, to provide treatments (radiations) on the spots... in a few words, many nanobots will be placed in blood vessels very soon.
Computers will be able to inject medecine and hormones in the bodies and someone might well mess everything up.

Consider my words!

~~ edit
I will open a new thread about researchers playing with the H5N1 virus and the medical community beginning to quarrel about this as researchers managed to do much harm already.

Hi Gerard !

What you have written is frightening, I have to think about it

Hi Muriel, everyone,

Sorry, I didn't intend to frighten you.
The technology is here. The only limit is the madness of someone: alas no need to lots of people, one is enough to lead to nightmare.

Look at what happened in Toulouse (what one guy can do to so many); think of the Italian doctor who can help ladies of "any" age have a baby; as I wrote it, a small team in the Netherlands played with H5N1 and "improved" it; a tech can easily mess up a car driving on the freeway regarding winshield wipers but also fuel injection or speed regulator or brakes; etc.
Easy for a mad person to disrupt the devices in a hospital, the TGVs, the trains in a Parisian main station, power management in Europe.

It's possible for "governments" to check and control "possible bad alternatives" but do they know about dangers? will they want? I remember a few years ago, politicians and economists stating that 1929's crisis was impossible nowadays because we had lots of organisations checking and regulating: right, the present crisis is not the same as 1929's, it's worse and in my opinion, governments are not ready to forbid bankers to play with virtual financial objects (computers lead the stock exchanges, even against countries and whatever the outcome provided they can make big money, right?)... What about GMO? What about stem cells?

Si la folie n'a pas de limite, l'espoir non plus et seul l'espoir fait vivre

Bonsoir Patrick,

Ce ne sera pas la fin du monde mais de grosses difficultés car les organismes de régulation (chargées de surveiller le respect des déontologies, le bon fonctionnement des marchés, les agences du médicament ;-) , etc.) seront prises en défaut et il faudra éteindre de multiples incendies comme souvent de nos jours.

Pas de problème pour les hyperconfiants, ils pourront toujours espérer.
Pas de problème non plus pour les anxieux, il y aura de quoi trembler.


Une question que je me pose : beaucoup de nos gouvernants ont une vision à court terme, pas mal d'organismes de régulation ne remplissent pas leur rôle (agence du médicament, services d'audit internes des activités des traders, agences interbancaires), etc. peut-être que je me fais vieux mais il me semble que les choses étaient mieux organisées par le passé : le Code Civil au début du 19ème s., les lois sur le travail dans les années 36 ou 45 (beaucoup d'organismes créés).

Hi Gérard ! Everyone !

I agree that madness is frightening ! Hitler for instance. He had psychological problems, he was totally mad and look at what he did.... .and people followed him , it's incredible ????? Now with our advanced technology a mad person could be even worse, I agree....Would people follow him...I don't think so...

Is the only way to fight against that is to join all the intelligences together and respect the environment or are we doomed to disappear sooner or later because the robots are taking over humankind ?
Here a positive post from Remy. What do you think ?

https://www.cafe-polyglotte.com/t1400-troisieme-revolution-industrielle?highlight=revolution+industrielle

Hi Muriel, everyone,

> Would people follow him...I don't think so...
I'm very skeptical.
Many specialists (in psychology, rhetoric) are good at convincing people.
Dictators didn't disappear.

I ask a question: are there less and less wars in the world?

> Is the only way to fight against that is to join all the intelligences together and respect the environment...
As long as there are politicians with other aims such as their election only...
Human beings alone would be wiser but there are professional politicians.

> or are we doomed to disappear sooner or later because the robots are taking over humankind ?
Disappear sooner or later? No, that's not my thought.
I simply mean that there will be difficulties as politicians and governmental organizations look unable to organize: budget cuttings, inability to have a long term view.
Read my response to Patrick: no, I'm not pessimistic, Robots won't lead the world but from time to time we'll get a fool who will threaten our world; an example is the present financial crisis (due to computers and a lack of checking by organization though the controls were in place... but theorically only).

Hi everyone,

Read on Direct Matin dated March 21, 2012:

ACCIDENT À QUIMPER : LES FREINS EN CAUSE
L’accident d’autocar survenu samedi à Quimper serait dû à une défaillance du système de freinage de l’engin, selon le conducteur entendu hier par les enquêteurs. Le véhicule n’aurait eu «aucune réaction» au moment d’aborder un rond-point. Le car était récent et avait été contrôlé
trois jours avant l’accident, qui a grièvement blessé trois personnes.

The bus was recent and was revised 3 days before the accident... brakes are now computerized.
Decades ago, unless a cable broke, brakes were good as long as brake linings were not worn out.
Nowadays, when a computer program bugs, nothing works all of a sudden.

i Gerard !

I will talk about that with Patrick because gradually he seems to take more interest in that forum. Unfortulately he has long working hours !!! Anyway,I think you will get an answer from him today.

because of our advanced technology we are at a mad man 's mercy (is it a correct expression ?)and it is frightening to think about that ! I cross my fingers( i belive in positive thought or spirit strength you can choose) because like you I don't trust politicians much

Muriel,

> you will get an answer from him today
Don't bother Patrick with my rant let him rest and take care of our children.

> at a mad man 's mercy (is it a correct expression ?)
Yes, as far as I know, this is correct.

> I cross my fingers
In my opinion, the problem is that there's less and less prevention but things are done afterwards. Reasons are : to expensive to deal with prevention, prevention is not interesting for medias and marketing (so that politicians see money waste only and nothing good for their image).

Cher Gérard,

En réponse à ta question sur l'inaptitude des gouvernants des organismes de régulation, j'ai un ami qui aux questions divisaient toujours sa réponse en 2 une réponse structurelle et une conjoncturelle. Il me semble que sa méthode peut se révéler utile :
la réponse structurelle : non tu n'es pas vieux mais actuellement le temps s'est accéléré, l'informatique, les canaux de communications ont fait que la diffusion de l'information s'est accélérée. Or, qui possède l'information possède le pouvoir (dans le temps l'Èglise possédait l'heure et l'affichait sur son fronton, elle possédait le calendrier des saints qui permettait l'ensemencement, les récoltes. La fortune des Rotchild s'est faite paraît il sur l'information que les anglais avaient battu les français à une bataille dont j'ai perdu le nom - on aurait perdu contre eux ;-)) -, Les traders possèdent l'information boursière en temps réel avant les autres...) pour en revenir à nos moutons les agences sont des organismes qui ne possèdent plus la réactivité nécessaire à leur réaction car par essence toute initiative demande un aval supérieur donc des réunions, donc une réponse décalée et forcément obsolète.
Quant aux dirigeants ils vivent dans l'immédiateté; puisque déjà élus. Ils doivent penser à leur réélection et que toute façon tout changement qui nécessite un long terme ne leur sera pas bénéfique puisqu'ils ne seront plus là pour en retirer les fruits...
Voilà à mon avis la cause structurelle de l'inaptitude des agences et des dirigeants.

L'autre raison est conjoncturelle : nous vivons dans un monde où l'image est reine, où l'Ego doit être dominant, où l'argent est roi, et la pensée magique prédomine (donc l'image de soi doit Ítre la meilleure, la réussite personnelle doit Ítre montrée - plus de photos de groupe où alors on doit être au centre, sa valeur se mesure à se que l'on affiche et à l'argent que sa coûte). Alors la probité d'une commission doit facilement être achetée non ? On dit que tout à un prix. Les réseaux mafieux prospèrent et s'ils sont bons pour les affaires alors on ferme les yeux. Les raisonnements logiques sont vites . A mon avis ce n'est pas nouveau mais lesmoyens structuraux actuels permettent une explosion de cette conjoncture

Voilà à mon sens des pistes â explorer et ton âge n'a rien à voir dans ton regard si non qu'il te laisse plus de libertÈ pour rÈflÈchir et mÈditer mais oui la sagesse appartient à ceux qui réfléchissent et non à ceux qui bêlent même si avec le temps et peut être avec l'aide d'Alzheimer nous finiront tous bêlant...

Patrick,

Un grand merci pour ta réponse !
Je suis un peu confus de tout le temps que tu as accordé à ce sujet.
Je pourrai trouver un peu de tempsen soirée pour commenter. Passe une bonne fin de journée.