Metaphysics
+5
corneille
nicolasM
gerardM
Admin
Teilhard
9 participants
Café polyglotte sur le net (Language forum) :: salons en différentes langues (Lounges in various languages) :: Let's talk together
Page 1 sur 4
Page 1 sur 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Metaphysics
To discover other pages please click on the top right. the page numbers appear there.
I am interested by quantum physic, especially by the phenomenon of particles’ non separability, in the way of which I mean: is there a kind of conscienceness behind reality of thing; If somebody could give me any help I would appreciate
I am interested by quantum physic, especially by the phenomenon of particles’ non separability, in the way of which I mean: is there a kind of conscienceness behind reality of thing; If somebody could give me any help I would appreciate
Teilhard- Messages : 70
Lieu : Sans (Lille)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, Es
Re: Metaphysics
I'm not a specialist of quantum physic but I will be happy to understand.
Could you explain it quickly and basically?
Could you explain it quickly and basically?
QUANTAS
Quantum mechanics take place at subatomic level of matter. For instance a proton is one of those subatomic particles: it is a constituent of the nucleus of one is known such a BOHR atom. It is made of three parts: three HADRONS which are “gossiping” otherwise exchanging information. The stuff of Universe seems to be not only materiel, of course you know: E= mc²Energyo can be transformed in matter; but for that information is needed. So where this information does comes from?
Teilhard- Messages : 70
Lieu : Sans (Lille)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, Es
"Exchanging information is our universe basis
We will never know where does this information come from. What we dicover as we study quantum mechanics is that "Exchanging information " is our universe basis. We come from the quantum particles through evolution and there is a link between everything. What is true at subatomic level of matter must true at human level. I am sure that our future is communication in a friendly way.
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Re: Metaphysics
To my mind, the missing energy come from the "empty" of the accelerator: it is not as empty as it seems. The device is build on the earth, and the earth is in motion. Scientifics neglects this energy, but as small as it is, the must take it in account.
quantas information and its emergence in thought in modern physic
When Teilhard first told of reversing direction, he went on to speak of life moving toward Spirit (esprit) that is, to mind or Spirit. He urged that the Human task was:”Spiritualizing Matter was to be transformed into thought, for everything that exits has a basis on thought”…”Fuller being is to be found …In the increasing domination of the world by Thought. So man task is “to give things their highest possible degree of being in that knowledge of them”. In turning his back on matter, he told of finding support for what he was finding in the claims of “idealist thinkers”. Here and often in later writings, he invokes the Idealists. It is true that in many passages, he expresses reservations with Idealism, but he felt called on to do so because of his own thought had much in common with theirs. Some contemporary physicists have tended towards Idealism, and Teilhard seemed to agree with them when he tells of modern physics being unable to detect in the atoms:” anything but the forms that it had itself imposed on them”. He claims the old realism that had been in Physics has by the very logic of its development, has veered towards a” scientific Idealism”
Teilhard- Messages : 70
Lieu : Sans (Lille)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, Es
Who is this omega point ?
Teilhard de Chardin advocates the development of a global society in which human intelligence will become super-intelligence. He fortells its spread into the universe and its amplification into a cosmic unity. An "Omega point will lead us to a new state of peace and planetary cohesion.
Is this omega point an intelligent attraction center or is it just "by chance" that we will reach such a state ?
Is this omega point an intelligent attraction center or is it just "by chance" that we will reach such a state ?
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Metaphysics
Hi everyone,
In my age, the main question guessing me is: What‘s waiting me (us), after death. You may say to me how it is absurd, idiot, nonsense, trying to resolve such a puzzle. For has anyone ever come back from Heaven? Yes, Spiritualisms say they are able to talk to spirits across tables; But isn’t pure fancy for a Cartesian mind. It can be a way of manipulation. For instance, you know that one says to young Muslims manipulated by fundamentalism, and driven to explode, burst themselves in particularly crowded places, have the promise that in paradise, they would get immediately find at their disposal ninety nine young virgins. (Brainwash!). MY FATHER was convinced that after his death he will join his mother, dad and all family. In my point of view, by chance could we be located beside A. Hitler, Polpot or other serial killers. An uncle of mine would prefer reach hell because he said joking, There, I’ll never get cold. Some theologians underline that hell exists but it is empty. (Perfect goodness of God). I shan’t speak about N.D.E. (near death experiences). Vision of soul taking off to a large tunnel with a bright light in the button of it, may be due to disturbances of brain metabolism switching off! But people who have experimented N.D.E. such as C.G.Jung get out from that with a peaceful, unified sensation. He was no more afraid for death. The question is why this Universe seems to have work for so many times if for nothing. A book titled the face of God emphasize that parameters of our Cosmos are so finely tuned, such as if a mysterious entity, a thought, hypo stated under, and informing each atomic particle was (by chance mixed with determinism) ruling the all world. This is an opinion shared, by most of quantum mechanics physicists and an explanation for the fact that human's mind have at its disposal liberty of thoughts. Nevertheless, this is a good thing! And that's why: I would respect every one’s liberty of thought upon the question what’s happening after death.
In my age, the main question guessing me is: What‘s waiting me (us), after death. You may say to me how it is absurd, idiot, nonsense, trying to resolve such a puzzle. For has anyone ever come back from Heaven? Yes, Spiritualisms say they are able to talk to spirits across tables; But isn’t pure fancy for a Cartesian mind. It can be a way of manipulation. For instance, you know that one says to young Muslims manipulated by fundamentalism, and driven to explode, burst themselves in particularly crowded places, have the promise that in paradise, they would get immediately find at their disposal ninety nine young virgins. (Brainwash!). MY FATHER was convinced that after his death he will join his mother, dad and all family. In my point of view, by chance could we be located beside A. Hitler, Polpot or other serial killers. An uncle of mine would prefer reach hell because he said joking, There, I’ll never get cold. Some theologians underline that hell exists but it is empty. (Perfect goodness of God). I shan’t speak about N.D.E. (near death experiences). Vision of soul taking off to a large tunnel with a bright light in the button of it, may be due to disturbances of brain metabolism switching off! But people who have experimented N.D.E. such as C.G.Jung get out from that with a peaceful, unified sensation. He was no more afraid for death. The question is why this Universe seems to have work for so many times if for nothing. A book titled the face of God emphasize that parameters of our Cosmos are so finely tuned, such as if a mysterious entity, a thought, hypo stated under, and informing each atomic particle was (by chance mixed with determinism) ruling the all world. This is an opinion shared, by most of quantum mechanics physicists and an explanation for the fact that human's mind have at its disposal liberty of thoughts. Nevertheless, this is a good thing! And that's why: I would respect every one’s liberty of thought upon the question what’s happening after death.
Teilhard- Messages : 70
Lieu : Sans (Lille)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, Es
Life after Death
You like to write about very serious subjects don't you Teilhard? congratulations for writing in english. But what you say deserves afterthought
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Re: Metaphysics
Hi Jean-Luc, Muriel, hi everyone,
Thanks for your message!
Your subject is very interesting.
It's very serious and personally, till someone doesn't promise me exact things about something beyond death, I'm rather practical and prefer to stay on this beloved Earth.
Thanks for your message!
Your subject is very interesting.
It's very serious and personally, till someone doesn't promise me exact things about something beyond death, I'm rather practical and prefer to stay on this beloved Earth.
beloved earth
I'm not sure that earth is beloved by many people: our planet is so much polluted; its resources are becaming exhausted. Only one part of human brain is working it's the predator 's one which you can is located at the very basis of the enceplalon(under the fourth ventricle) !Is there another world's Soul?
Teilhard- Messages : 70
Lieu : Sans (Lille)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, Es
Re: Metaphysics
Hi Jean-Luc, hi everyone,
I do hope many people love our Earth.
I agree Earth is far from being perfect. We have to fight, I'm doing my best to respect and protect it.
However, I enjoy taking advantage of the marvel Earth is, walking on paths, in the middle of the country far from smoke and cars and in front of wonderful landscapes.
I do hope many people love our Earth.
I agree Earth is far from being perfect. We have to fight, I'm doing my best to respect and protect it.
However, I enjoy taking advantage of the marvel Earth is, walking on paths, in the middle of the country far from smoke and cars and in front of wonderful landscapes.
what I indulge my mind to think about?
After spending nearly fifty years learning studying mainly scientific medical literature; I have had enough! Since I'm retired, I have changed radically my reading subjects. Now I indulge myself in weird tale or experiment! A little bit fed up with positivist, determinist, mechanistic, scientist even Cartesian way of considers the world; I plunge in fancier one. For instance I’m reading J.K ROWLING? Who is she? Of course she‘s the writer of Harry Potter novel (H.P. and the Philosopher stone; half blood prince; and the deathly Hallows). As you see I read it in English original text!
Also, I read mystic passages books. For some people it seems to be a rather silly literature (and laugh) because psychoanalysts theories mysticism such as sublimation of erotic drive! Moreover isn’t a denial of all paradigms upon which we in France have built our way of thinking and philosophizing! As you know I’m rather interested by Quantum mechanics witch takes place at subatomic level of matter Now, it becomes impossible to have a materialistic point of view upon our world. Transcendence blends with matter. And none could say neither if we think nor if we are thought! After ways of aferthought based upon evidence and analysis,would humans of XXIth century be interested by other ways of thought represented by an opposite, synthetizing,and unifying one. This may explicate the very etymologic sense of the world Universe (versus Unum) which goes towards Unity! For instance, that’s why J. Lennon sings in the end of his song Imagine “And the world will be One'!
Could I understand that it would be a fancy comparable with H. Potter? But that is what I indulge my mind to think about!
Another question : How is reflective consciousness appeared on earth? It must be defined. "By not thinking" man acquires the ability to "not only knowledge but (to) know that he knows." The man "acquired a conscience ... to fall back on itself, and to take possession of itself as of a given object of its consistency and its particular value: not known, but recognize. Not only knowledge, but know we know. By this individuation itself the living element, hitherto prevalent and divided over a diffuse circle of perceptions and activities, is constituted for the first time in punctiforme center where all representations and experiences are formed and consolidated in a conscious throughout its organization. "Conscience is the inchoate -it tiny quantum particles? Is she emergence of a new "by saltation" from a certain level of complexity? The systémiciens lean towards this hypothesis. It could even be pre-programmed in the virtual orbital quantum! The appearance of man calls for a "new covenant" information E, E as informative overall hypostasis / Matter. Asked Is the evolution predetermined? The answer is yes, even if it does not go in a positivist direction. Related to E by directional orbital probability Pauli, it is predictable to Dambricourt, Fleury, Chaline
Each Monad (or cosmic function unit) is subject to the same internal information via RNA / DNA torque which is the relay transmitter as this evolutionary process, effector materials. Jumps a plan of organization to another predetermined orbits are in a virtual saltationiste sense emergentist. So for A. Dambricourt Mallassé, each species Homo (Australopithecus, Pithecanthropus Erectus etc.), is generated by a new definite verticalization of a precise angulation Sphenoid. What goes in the direction of Biblical Reference: (AT Jeremiah 1-5): "Before I was forming you in the womb I knew you" .E determines through time a rise of consciousness: "She represents the true path (neguentropic) of our universe through time "PH Under its action continues in the Axis cerebralization there is a rise in the number of neurons that go together with the rise of consciousness "the fruit that ripens" in cosmogenesis! R. Laughlin (Nobel prize in 2005) admits that "emerges, as at every level of greater complexity, greater autonomy of the psychic apparatus. "(Autofinalisation) I mention next time the position of scientists about the book I just read on the death of the death of Laurent ALEXANDRE
$
Also, I read mystic passages books. For some people it seems to be a rather silly literature (and laugh) because psychoanalysts theories mysticism such as sublimation of erotic drive! Moreover isn’t a denial of all paradigms upon which we in France have built our way of thinking and philosophizing! As you know I’m rather interested by Quantum mechanics witch takes place at subatomic level of matter Now, it becomes impossible to have a materialistic point of view upon our world. Transcendence blends with matter. And none could say neither if we think nor if we are thought! After ways of aferthought based upon evidence and analysis,would humans of XXIth century be interested by other ways of thought represented by an opposite, synthetizing,and unifying one. This may explicate the very etymologic sense of the world Universe (versus Unum) which goes towards Unity! For instance, that’s why J. Lennon sings in the end of his song Imagine “And the world will be One'!
Could I understand that it would be a fancy comparable with H. Potter? But that is what I indulge my mind to think about!
Another question : How is reflective consciousness appeared on earth? It must be defined. "By not thinking" man acquires the ability to "not only knowledge but (to) know that he knows." The man "acquired a conscience ... to fall back on itself, and to take possession of itself as of a given object of its consistency and its particular value: not known, but recognize. Not only knowledge, but know we know. By this individuation itself the living element, hitherto prevalent and divided over a diffuse circle of perceptions and activities, is constituted for the first time in punctiforme center where all representations and experiences are formed and consolidated in a conscious throughout its organization. "Conscience is the inchoate -it tiny quantum particles? Is she emergence of a new "by saltation" from a certain level of complexity? The systémiciens lean towards this hypothesis. It could even be pre-programmed in the virtual orbital quantum! The appearance of man calls for a "new covenant" information E, E as informative overall hypostasis / Matter. Asked Is the evolution predetermined? The answer is yes, even if it does not go in a positivist direction. Related to E by directional orbital probability Pauli, it is predictable to Dambricourt, Fleury, Chaline
Each Monad (or cosmic function unit) is subject to the same internal information via RNA / DNA torque which is the relay transmitter as this evolutionary process, effector materials. Jumps a plan of organization to another predetermined orbits are in a virtual saltationiste sense emergentist. So for A. Dambricourt Mallassé, each species Homo (Australopithecus, Pithecanthropus Erectus etc.), is generated by a new definite verticalization of a precise angulation Sphenoid. What goes in the direction of Biblical Reference: (AT Jeremiah 1-5): "Before I was forming you in the womb I knew you" .E determines through time a rise of consciousness: "She represents the true path (neguentropic) of our universe through time "PH Under its action continues in the Axis cerebralization there is a rise in the number of neurons that go together with the rise of consciousness "the fruit that ripens" in cosmogenesis! R. Laughlin (Nobel prize in 2005) admits that "emerges, as at every level of greater complexity, greater autonomy of the psychic apparatus. "(Autofinalisation) I mention next time the position of scientists about the book I just read on the death of the death of Laurent ALEXANDRE
$
Teilhard- Messages : 70
Lieu : Sans (Lille)
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Gb, Es
Hereafter.
There currently is a movie about this topic !
The film "Hereafter" was directed by Clint Eastwood and the main actor is Matt Damon.
The story is about an american man (Matt Damon) who's able to comunicate with dead people. This man used to make a lot of money by using his special skills, but he decided to stop his activity in order to lead a normal life. After a bad experience, he made the decision to take long holidays in London, where he'll meet a female french writer (Cécile De france) whose life has been transformed after she had known a tragic Near Death Experience in Asia. He'll also help a London scholl boy (Bryce Dallas Howard) talk to his dead brother, who was killed in a car crash.
I enjoyed watching this movie in the cinema, and would encourage anyone interested in the topic to go and see it. This is a quiet movie, that sometimes feels dramatic or sad. But after watching it, you'll feel relaxed and quite relieved about what there might be in hereafter.
The film "Hereafter" was directed by Clint Eastwood and the main actor is Matt Damon.
The story is about an american man (Matt Damon) who's able to comunicate with dead people. This man used to make a lot of money by using his special skills, but he decided to stop his activity in order to lead a normal life. After a bad experience, he made the decision to take long holidays in London, where he'll meet a female french writer (Cécile De france) whose life has been transformed after she had known a tragic Near Death Experience in Asia. He'll also help a London scholl boy (Bryce Dallas Howard) talk to his dead brother, who was killed in a car crash.
I enjoyed watching this movie in the cinema, and would encourage anyone interested in the topic to go and see it. This is a quiet movie, that sometimes feels dramatic or sad. But after watching it, you'll feel relaxed and quite relieved about what there might be in hereafter.
nicolasM- Messages : 15
Lieu : calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle) , Gb, De
Re: Metaphysics
Hello Nicolas
Thank you for your interesting comment. I agree with you, it is a good film though critics are not good
If you like to see on january 22nd, I have already written about this film.
Merci de me faire part des grosses fautes dans mes messages en langue étrangère. Grâce à vos remarques, je pourrai m'améliorer
Thank you for your interesting comment. I agree with you, it is a good film though critics are not good
If you like to see on january 22nd, I have already written about this film.
Merci de me faire part des grosses fautes dans mes messages en langue étrangère. Grâce à vos remarques, je pourrai m'améliorer
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Metaphysics
->
Will The Internet Kill Religion?
(click pic or link to access video)
The Internet is a great tool to connect with others, learn new things, and learn about things happening all over the world! Is it also killing religion? Laci sits down to discuss an interesting study about how the rise in Internet might be causing people to lose their religion.
How the Internet Is Taking Away America's Religion
_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.
Re: Metaphysics
hi everyone !
What is religion ? is it a system of symbols, myths, doctrines, ethics and rituals. when people have a lot of contacts thanks to internet, they tend to understand better everyone else' s view-points and move away from narrow beliefs. For me the Americans are in a positive evolution. They do not deny the existence of a transcendence. It is all the other way round.
What is religion ? is it a system of symbols, myths, doctrines, ethics and rituals. when people have a lot of contacts thanks to internet, they tend to understand better everyone else' s view-points and move away from narrow beliefs. For me the Americans are in a positive evolution. They do not deny the existence of a transcendence. It is all the other way round.
.Internet is the birth of a global web of consciousness and helps us go forward together in love, while preserving individuality
Dernière édition par MurielB le Mer 5 Sep - 16:50, édité 1 fois
_________________
La langue c'est Le Lien,
Language is The Link,
La Lengua es el Nexo de unión,
Sprache ist die Verbindung,
Il Linguaggio è Il Legame,
La Lingvo estas La Ligilo etc.
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Bizarre Quantum State Entangles a Record 3,000 Atoms
Howsdy.
Discovery News
BIZARRE QUANTUM STATE ENTANGLES A RECORD 3,000 ATOMS: Using a single particle of light, scientists have for the first time linked together thousands of atoms in a bizarre state known as quantum entanglement, where the behavior of the atoms would stay connected even if they were at opposite ends of the universe.
Bizarre Quantum State Entangles a Record 3,000 Atoms : DNews
The large number of entangled particles could improve the accuracy of GPS and atomic clocks.
NEWS.DISCOVERY.COM
Discovery News
BIZARRE QUANTUM STATE ENTANGLES A RECORD 3,000 ATOMS: Using a single particle of light, scientists have for the first time linked together thousands of atoms in a bizarre state known as quantum entanglement, where the behavior of the atoms would stay connected even if they were at opposite ends of the universe.
Bizarre Quantum State Entangles a Record 3,000 Atoms : DNews
The large number of entangled particles could improve the accuracy of GPS and atomic clocks.
NEWS.DISCOVERY.COM
_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.
Do Religions Really Cause Violence?
Howdy.
Discovery News
DO RELIGIONS REALLY CAUSE VIOLENCE?: Throughout history, religion has been tied to massive tragedy and loss of life, but is religion truly at fault for events like The Crusades?
Do Religions Really Cause Violence?
Throughout history religion has been tied to massive tragedy and loss of life but is religion truly at fault for events like The Crusades?
TESTTUBE.COM
Discovery News
DO RELIGIONS REALLY CAUSE VIOLENCE?: Throughout history, religion has been tied to massive tragedy and loss of life, but is religion truly at fault for events like The Crusades?
Do Religions Really Cause Violence?
Throughout history religion has been tied to massive tragedy and loss of life but is religion truly at fault for events like The Crusades?
TESTTUBE.COM
_________________
Please feel free to point out big mistakes in my messages in a foreign language. Thanks to your remarks, I'll be able to improve my level.
PS: Pls note that I chose American English for my vocabulary, grammar, spelling, culture, etc.
Re: Metaphysics
Gérard when you follow a spiritual guide and when you belong to a community with the same beliefs, you tend to think that you and the members of your community are right and that those who are outside that community are wrong. It is dangerous or course and no good for anyone !
Any way All major religious traditions carry basically the same message, that is love, compassion and forgiveness the important thing is they should be part of our daily lives.(Dalai lama)
This quote is also shared by the enlightened atheists because without lofty ideas our societies collapse and it is the end of the world !
Any way All major religious traditions carry basically the same message, that is love, compassion and forgiveness the important thing is they should be part of our daily lives.(Dalai lama)
This quote is also shared by the enlightened atheists because without lofty ideas our societies collapse and it is the end of the world !
_________________
La langue c'est Le Lien,
Language is The Link,
La Lengua es el Nexo de unión,
Sprache ist die Verbindung,
Il Linguaggio è Il Legame,
La Lingvo estas La Ligilo etc.
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Re: Metaphysics
It's in the nature of a living thing to be violent because he need to eats other living things to survive. An a religion is just a group of living things ....
Everybody is more or less violent (not only physically!!).
Everybody is more or less violent (not only physically!!).
Re: Metaphysics
There are 2 forces in the universe.
- Violence=> The strongest want to eat up the weakest (survival of the fittest)
- Love, compassion and forgiveness.=> A kind of transcendence could act through us.
_________________
La langue c'est Le Lien,
Language is The Link,
La Lengua es el Nexo de unión,
Sprache ist die Verbindung,
Il Linguaggio è Il Legame,
La Lingvo estas La Ligilo etc.
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Re: Metaphysics
Mind you ! If violence dominates over Love, it's the end of the world !
_________________
La langue c'est Le Lien,
Language is The Link,
La Lengua es el Nexo de unión,
Sprache ist die Verbindung,
Il Linguaggio è Il Legame,
La Lingvo estas La Ligilo etc.
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Re: Metaphysics
There is violence and love in every alive thinks. All is not completely white, but all isn't completely black (hopefully)
A world only based on love isn't valuable: this is the mix love/violence how make the human evoluate. Look at some tributes only based on love (like pygmees, bushmen ...), they are not evoluated anyway.
So a only-loving word is a static world, but you're right that a only-violent world in the end!
and !
A world only based on love isn't valuable: this is the mix love/violence how make the human evoluate. Look at some tributes only based on love (like pygmees, bushmen ...), they are not evoluated anyway.
So a only-loving word is a static world, but you're right that a only-violent world in the end!
and !
Re: Metaphysics
I agree with you Florent. Anyway love doen't mean " accepting everything and being permissive "There is violence and love in every living being
Anyway it is important to have dreams because
what you think becomes your reality
Let's have a look on Martin Luther's dream =>I have a Dream Martin Luther 1963
Dernière édition par MurielB le Sam 4 Nov - 16:31, édité 4 fois
_________________
La langue c'est Le Lien,
Language is The Link,
La Lengua es el Nexo de unión,
Sprache ist die Verbindung,
Il Linguaggio è Il Legame,
La Lingvo estas La Ligilo etc.
MurielB- Admin
- Messages : 18799
Lieu : Calais
Langues : Français (Langue maternelle), Espéranto, Gb, De, It, Es, chinois
Page 1 sur 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Café polyglotte sur le net (Language forum) :: salons en différentes langues (Lounges in various languages) :: Let's talk together
Page 1 sur 4
Permission de ce forum:
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum